- People are worried about AGI, I am worried what will happen if we don't achieve AGI.
- The idea that AGI will care to fix this, or that the US government will allow an AGI that wants to fix this to exist, feels a little like escapism to me.
- One theory is that since China "won" the green energy race, the current US regime plans are to keep others dependent on oil and hence US shale, which would explain Trumps asinine comments about EU wind power. Not sure I buy it, but it seems to fit the bigger picture.
- This is awful news.
I mean, presumably some future Democratic administration will reinstate the rule. But with this precedent set, this might become a switch that turns on and off every time the political winds change. When Republicans are in power, the US will do nothing at all to fight climate change. When Democrats are in power, they will belatedly try to undo the damage.
And of course there will be knock-on effects from other countries. Why should (for example) Mexico do anything at all to fight global warming, when the US (which is much richer, and a much larger polluter) declines to help?
- It sucks that Congress don't do their job of making reasonable laws. I hate that the executive and judicial branches have to do so much work that should be done by Congress.
- GOP dēlenda est.
- Is this another Epstein distraction?
- No: they’ve campaigned for years on behalf of their fossil fuel industry donors. The major oil and coal companies started a multi-decade push when the climate science debate was settled around 1980, with an end goal of protecting profits for as long as possible. The Republican Party has been trying to protect those donors but never had such strong backing to just ignore the scientists and EPA rule-making process before.
- They still don't have strong backing to do this, they just don't have anyone to stop them.
- I think it's largely supported by the rural/agriculture community. I have zero emissions controls on my diesel engine because it's more reliable out in the middle of nowhere and it lets you fall back to gloriously almost purely mechanical engine without ECU which is easy to work on. For the same reason, the government themselves exempt themselves from emissions controls which is why most the diesel trucks you can buy from government auctions are 'deleted.'
- Two separate things can occur without relation.
- Au contraire The guy is slick. Sleight of hand trick.
A magician makes you look where they want while the magic happens elsewhere.
I would be surprised if he was not in charge in 2030 still. It seems everybody else ate too much plastic too be able to think straight.
At this point I would be surprised if he wasn't still there in 2036.
Unrelated, but it reminds me that he captured maduro, and Chavez and maduro were able to stay in charge by destroying the Congress, support of lobbying companies and accusing other parties of corruption and frauding the elections. Because of that, like many others. He was able to push elections far from view and there was always a war to be fought or an enemy to defend against. At some point, I kid you not, those guys accursed every single immigrant living in Venezuela of being a conspirator. All those who questioned any of this were accused of treason and the army was right there to defend the president. Sorry I mean country. Maduro lost too much gas to keep it going
- Of all the terrible things that the Trump Admin has done, this is perhaps the worst of all, with the gravest repercussions for humanity.
But who cares about science, or humanity for that matter, so long as big companies can increase their profits and keep greasing the wheels of corrupt politicians!
- I doubt it will end up accomplishing much more than letting 'delete' kits go legal again which have relatively weak penetration into the market. 3 years isn't enough runway to start manufacturing things without emissions unless they can get green-light to import foreign models that fast, which due to protectionism will probably get delayed as much as the admin can.
- >Reversing the finding would reduce automobile manufacturers' spending by $2,400 per vehicle, White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt told reporters.
If this is true, that is a monstrous 5% of an average new vehicle. And it's not just the cost of the vehicle, emissions equipment also can make the vehicle slightly less reliable, especially diesel engines, so it's likely to reduce the cost of vehicles by more than the initial 5%.
----- edit since I am throttled -----
I know for a fact the prices are lower non-emission vs emission. I own a tractor that is detuned 0.1 HP under the emission limit and with zero emissions controls. They sell the exact same tractor with the exact same engine with a fuel screw turned up over the limit to increase hp, plus emissions controls, and it's about $4,000 more. Manufacturers absolutely will charge more for emissions models than non-emissions models.
- > I know for a fact the prices are lower non-emission vs emission. I own a tractor that is detuned 0.1 HP under the emission limit and with zero emissions controls. They sell the exact same tractor with the exact same engine with a fuel screw turned up over the limit to increase hp, plus emissions controls, and it's about $4,000 more. Manufacturers absolutely will charge more for emissions models than non-emissions models.
This is flawed logic.
BMW tried charging a subscription fee for heated seats (https://www.thedrive.com/news/bmw-commits-to-subscriptions-e...). All the cars had the seat heaters; "exact same [car] with the exact same [seats]". (I'd also note that you yourself acknowledge that people are paying for the extra horsepower, not the emissions controls.)
You're describing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination, not necessarily an actual difference in the BOM.
- No they're paying for the emissions controls. The people that buy the tractor I have, usually illegally turn the screw and get all the horsepower back. Nothing is stopping them from doing it, it is all over youtube, can be done in a few minutes.
If it was actually about "price discrimination" they would do something to stop you from tuning them back to the full horsepower other than "please definitely don't do this thing we made it super easy for you to do, hint at in your repair manual, and is plastered all over youtube probably indirectly by advice of our own mechanics."
To use your BMW analogy, it would be "we put a screw to turn on the heated seats, but please don't do that". That would not indicate someone actually seeking price discriminations, but rather providing people a way to save money getting around an expensive rule, but also they will charge you $4000 if you really want to comply with the law and add a big "save the environment" doohickey on to the seat heater.
----------- re: below due to throttling-----------
You cutoff my quote to change the context of what I was saying. Preponderance of the evidence is pretty clear what you're saying doesn't apply here, even if it applies to something else.
- > If it was actually about "price discrimination" they would do something to stop you from tuning them back to the full horsepower…
No, not necessarily. Plenty of price discrimination is the exact same thing sold to different crowds at different prices, like pink razors or "dude wipes".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_tax / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude_Wipes
Or how Teslas let you pay for more range in an existing car, with no physical difference, just some code. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/27/business/teslas-pricing-h...
- Now do the cost of unchecked emissions.
(And Leavitt is hardly a reputable source.)
- Acidified oceans, poisonous air, and frequent multibillion dollar extreme weather events are a small price to pay for a purely hypothetical $2,400 off my next car, which I am forced to own because the same companies that lobby against climate change regulations are the ones that tore up all the public transit infrastructure that would otherwise allow me not to own a car at all. Americans love getting fucked by our corporate overlords, we can’t get enough of it, it’s our way of life.
- Wonderful. And will these amazing cost savings offset the costs of future disasters related to climate change? Or are we taking more of "the band played on" Titanic approach, now?
- You really think big business will pull back pricing with this? It is as reasonable to believe that removal of the tariffs will bring back the lower prices on goods.
CEOs want to maximize their golden parachutes and their stock value ... prices will be the same or go up. USA capitalism is about maximize profits not the buying power of their citizens.
- So what?
Are you fantasizing that they'll reduce the price of cars because of this and somehow benefit people?
And they'd have to take the time to redesign. And Democrats will (hopefully) reinstate it in a few years, and carmakers probably recognize that. Along with the threat of legal challenges by environmental groups.
And, further, if we eventually do get these inefficient polluting cars - who's going to want to buy them? They certainly wouldn't be able to sell them in same countries. Seems pointless overall for carmakers, generally.
Just a gift to polluting corporations and billionaires who want profit at our expense.
55 points by saikatsg 2 hours ago | 24 comments