- I worked on the Xcode team for years and know the lengths Apple goes to make this stuff difficult to figure out.
I just wanted to say that you’ve done an excellent job and am looking forward to the 3rd installment.
- >I worked on the Xcode team for years
Why did you guys remove the ability to detach the console and move it to another window?
- [flagged]
- Part 2 has benchmarks: https://maderix.substack.com/p/inside-the-m4-apple-neural-en...
6.6 FLOPS/W, plus the ability to completely turn off when not in use, so 0W at idle.
- I've been guilty of this myself, but every other comment here is like "What about <insert something unrelated to the topic but related to apple>".
- > Throughout this series, “we” refers to maderix (human) and Claude Opus 4.6 (by Anthropic) working as a pair. The reverse engineering, benchmarking, and training code were developed collaboratively
Sure, "collaboratively." Why would I ever trust a vibe coded analysis? How do I, a non expert in this niche, know that Opus isn't pulling a fast one on both of us? LLMs write convincing bullshit that even fools experts. Have you manually verified each fact in this piece? I doubt it. Thanks for the disclaimer, it saved me from having to read it.
- Humans also write endless amounts of convincing bullshit, and have done since time immemorial. False papers and faked results have been a growing scourge in academia before LLMs were a thing, and that's just counting the intentional fraud - the reproducibility crisis in science, especially medical and psychological science, affects even the best designed and well intentioned of studies.
Humans also make mistakes and assumptions while reverse engineering, so it will always need more engineers to go through the results, test things
- Claude likes to hide bad benchmarks from you, so it will show you where you are clearly winning. You even see some weird benchmarks in the article.
- It's insane that the source code of ANE is not available even to the MLX team, possibly one of the reasons Awni (MLX project head) left Apple.
- [flagged]
- Yes I haven't worked at a hardware company, nothing to be ashamed of!
- I'm not op but I don't think op meant to shame, I understand the construction "tell me you're... without telling me" as a way to highlight that something is unexpected to people who haven't done something, that is that something is particularly unintuitive without some special experience.
- he did a reddit (cringe) and now must be punished for it (the text becomes an absolutely fucking unreadable shade of light grey)
- actually, it really is not neccesarily a 'hardware company' thing. ive been in 'hardware companies' where the rtl was just as available for viewing as the rest of the firmware/software.
in big hardware companies, things start getting siloed, but that probably has more to do with big companies (seemingly invariably) operating as a union of fiefdoms (dunbar-number-ification?)
- > It's insane that the source code of ANE is not available even to the MLX team
no it's not insane - it's completely mundane policy. that's my point - that you're calling something out as insane with exactly zero experience (which is the actually insane thing...).
- on that line of argument, nobody would have ever called out the emperor for not wearing any clothes, civilians would not go to peace protests, and nobody would ever improve things by looking at something from another angle.
- This is a completely asinine take - you're not observing the emperor with no clothes here - you're completely outside the kingdom hypothesizing that the emperor has no clothes. To wit: you don't actually know the the ANE "source" isn't available to MLX. Hint: it probably is but there's just red tape involved.
- Much of this information we already knew the very basics of from documentation of the M1/M2 ANE as accessed via bare-metal from Asahi Linux, but it's nice to see confirmation and it being explored in further depth. Note that according to OP Parts 1/2 for very large matmuls CoreML adds little to no overhead compared to the lower-level interface, so there seems to be plenty of scope for supporting ANE for prefill in local AI frameworks. Decode is generally memory-bandwidth limited unless context is very large, and the ANE requires special handling (converting from matmul to 1x1 convolution as described here is wasteful of memory bandwidth, as is potentially dequantizing to INT8/FP16 in memory) so it's less of a clear win.
- The recent news is that Apple is supposedly replacing the Core ML framework with an updated version that will make it easier to integrate third party LLMs into your apps.
> the company is also planning a few other software-based AI upgrades, including a new framework called Core AI. The idea is to replace the long-existing Core ML with something a bit more modern.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2026-03-01/apple-...
- This article was clearly written by a human (and AI) but still has a few "LLMisms" such as:
- The key insight - [CoreML] doesn't XXX. It YYY.
With that being said, this is a highly informative article that I enjoyed thoroughly! :)
The article links to their own Github repo: https://github.com/maderix/ANE
- We've got about a year before so many people are interacting with LLMs on a daily basis that its style starts to reverse infect human speech and writing
- Great insight – Would you like to try and identify some specific "AI-isms" that you've noticed creeping into your own writing or your colleagues' emails lately?
- This said, there were people that talked like this before LLMs, it didn't develop this whole cloth.
- The article above doesn't read well, at all.
It's not my subject, but it reads as a list of things. There's little exposition.
- Exactly. LLM's are mimics.
People seem to be going around pointing out that people talk like parrots, when in reality it's parrots talk like people.
- I mean, it's both.
Did you develop your own whole language at any point to describe the entire world? No, you, me, and society mimic what is around us.
Humans have the advantage, at least at this point, of being a continuous learning device so we adapt and change with the language use around us.
- Also the Prior Art section, which has telltale repetition of useless verbs like "documenting," "providing insight into," and "confirming" on each line. This was definitely AI-written, at least in part.
- Below are the items from that section. How should they be written to not look like an AI?
> hollance/neural-engine — Matthijs Hollemans’ comprehensive community documentation of ANE behavior, performance characteristics, and supported operations. The single best existing resource on ANE.
> mdaiter/ane — Early reverse engineering with working Python and Objective-C samples, documenting the ANECompiler framework and IOKit dispatch.
> eiln/ane — A reverse-engineered Linux driver for ANE (Asahi Linux project), providing insight into the kernel-level interface.
> apple/ml-ane-transformers — Apple’s own reference implementation of transformers optimized for ANE, confirming design patterns like channel-first layout and 1×1 conv preference.
- The future is bright for software engineers.
The big takeaway isn't reverse engineering the ANE per se, but what Manjeet could do with his software engineering skills when accelerated by AI.
This is a good example of the present state of software engineering. Not future state - present state.
- Reverse Engineering with AI is only going to get better. I have seen some crazy things friends of mine have done with Claude alone. Let's just says SaaS isn't the only industry that could one day suffer.
- I never realized just how much hardware engineering Apple dedicated to enabling people to type faster with their thumbs!
- Tangential: Is anyone doing something similar to accelerate the support matrix of Linux on anything higher than M2?
- > human intuition driving the exploration
This, a thousand times this.
For me, what AI brings is augmented humans. Just as we don't calculate on paper anymore, what is the reason of doing things by hand when a machine in X times better.
Want to code by hand, as artisans of old? Suit yourself.
I, for one, love the smell of burning chrome.
- If "AI" were doing anything more than repeating content from the web without attribution, I might agree with you.
- Unreadable Claude slop
- [dead]
- Genuine question, not trying to throw a shade or anything, but are those cores actually useful with the state of apple intelligence being what it is?
- They are also used by ML models that are deeply integrated in macos and ios without you knowing. Like object and text detection in images.
- And help in Photos, Final Cut Pro, and other apps.
- I wish they would (or wouldn't if they are) hook it up to the ios keyboard.
- If you strip away the branding, Apple has and continues to ship a ton of algorithms that likely use the ANE and end users can use CoreML to do the same.
Just some things that people will likely take for granted that IIRC Apple have said use the ANE or at least would likely benefit from it: object recognition, subject extraction from images and video, content analysis, ARKit, spam detection, audio transcription.
- Don’t forget FaceID and many of the image manipulation.
And while everyone else went to more powerful giant LLMs, Apple moved most of Siri from the cloud to your device. Though they do use both (which you can see when Siri corrects itself during transcription—you get the local Siri version corrected later by the cloud version).
- Apple's OSes run a lot of local ML models for many tasks that aren't branded as Apple Intelligence, and they have done so for many years now.
- This is a nice article. Thanks for sharing.
- You can convert your own ML models to MLX to use them; Apple Intelligence is not the only application.
- MLX does not run on NPUs AFAIK; just gpu and cpu. You have to use CoreML to officially run code on the neural engine.
- Even then there is no transparency on how it decides what runs on the ANE/GPU etc
- Correct. OS level stuff get first priority, so you can’t count on using it.
- Turns out third party actually gets priority for ANE
210 points by zdw 1 day ago | 54 comments