- Glad Ars isn't just 100% regurgitating a startup's press release:
> The company told Ars that it has been evaluated by James Andy Lynch (who was present at the demonstration) and his team at Fire Solutions Group, a Pennsylvania-based consultancy, to establish Sonic Fire Tech’s bona fides. Sonic Fire Tech declined to provide Ars with a full copy of Lynch’s report, citing “confidential and patent-pending information,” but it did send Ars the two-page executive summary.
> But the summary lacks any kind of detailed explanation of which tests were run and under what conditions. It also concludes that “additional testing and optimization are recommended to further expand the range of validated applications,” adding that Sonic Fire Tech’s products have the “potential to complement or, in certain applications, serve as an alternative to traditional suppression systems.”
> “Equivalency [to the 13D standard] can only be approved by the appropriate authority having jurisdiction and requires technical documentation be submitted demonstrating the equivalency,” Jonathan Hart, NFPA Technical Lead, Fire Protection Technical Resources, emailed Ars.
> To date, Sonic Fire Tech has not publicly provided this information.
- Humans have to do this work. If you want your tech journalism to not just be LLM-washed press releases, then toss Ars a few bucks a month for a subscription.
- Yeah, New York Post was screaming that it's a miracle.
Ars wasn't having it. And the video that was shared looks really unimpressive.
- I doubt this would be as effective as a sprinkler because sprinklers cool surfaces as well as extinguishing. But I could see it being a useful complement to a sprinkler, as a first-line defense in the early moments of a fire starting. Sprinklers only kick in once the fire is already well-established and do enormous water damage.
- Yeah, that was my thought too.
Additionally, even if they cannot replace sprinklers, not all buildings even have sprinklers. This technology could still be useful for cheap retrofits to add some fire protection at low cost rather than either demolishing or performing an expensive sprinkler.
- Doesn't this need line of sight? If a fire starts outside of the line of sight, that's the time the fire needs to get out of control and you would have to test this system in that scenario. Sprinklers will soak everything and make it harder for the fire to spread.
- Why does it take so long? We've had faster versions for at least a decade...
https://cec.gmu.edu/news/2015-02/pump-bass-douse-blaze-mason...
- Anyone with experience of standing in front of a bass bin at a drum n bass rave will instantly understand why this could work.
- > An AI-driven sensor activates and wall emitters blast infrasound waves toward the source of the fire in an attempt to put it out
What, exactly, is the role of AI in this context?
- I wonder what the frequency is and what it's resonant with. There could be some interesting and dangerous side effects.
- I'd want to see more about the failure modes. Production systems need graceful degradation more than optimal performance.
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- To provide more information than the others who responded: typical sprinkler systems are not automatically activated in response to a fire alarm. Each sprinkler head has a small glass vial filled with a liquid, calibrated to break at a certain elevated temperature (e.g 160 or 180 F). The flow of water starts when the glass breaks. So there has to be a significant fire near the sprinkler before it activates.
One weakness is that the glass vial is fragile. In some hotels you’ll see signs reminding guests not to hang clothes from the sprinkler head, as a clothes hanger could break the vial and activate the water flow.
- "By accident"? How do you think sprinklers work, exactly? You "accidentally" left the sauna door open and now the living room is 160F?
If it were a problem, you'd be hearing about it from apartment dwellers, since sprinklers are required in many (if not most) cases:
https://firetechsprinkler.com/blog/when-are-sprinklers-requi...
- Shelves moving and people hanging suits on them come to mind.
- Maybe in the US. I've never seen a sprinkler in an apartment building in Europe.
- Mandating sprinklers in apartments, but not in houses, is one of the myriad ways North America chose to make the construction of apartments uneconomical, and thus uncommon.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0194436920897553...
> Veiller, concerned with strategy, proposed that legislation to prevent multifamily housing use indirect methods because "zoning legislation will no doubt be fought strenuously and perhaps defeated." He outlined an approach designed to make apartment construction, even of three-unit dwellings, prohibitively expensive:
> ‘Do everything possible in our laws to encourage the construction of private dwellings and even two-family dwellings, because the two-family house is the next least objectionable type, and penalize so far as we can in our statute, the multiple dwelling of any kind.... If we require multiple dwellings to be fireproof, and thus increase the cost of construction; if we require stairs to be fireproofed, even where there are only three families; if we require fire escapes and a host of other things, all dealing with fire protection, we are on safe grounds, because that can be justified as a legitimate exercise of the police power.... In our laws let most of the fire provisions relate solely to multiple dwellings, and allow our private houses and two-family houses to be built with no fire protection whatever’ (NHA Proceedings 1913, 212).
- Wow, I heard about the weird dual staircase fire regulation thing (effectively requiring these horrible dystopian corridors), but I had no idea these regulations were that intentionally anti-apartment-building.
- Worse yet, you might not have a choice; the article notes that “sprinklers are already required in all new California homes built in 2011 and later.”
- Well, one choice would be to simply not live in California. There's no good reason why anyone would want to.
- let me help educate you. :)
Most common sprinkler type used in a residential setting is “wet pipe”: https://www.nfpa.org/news-blogs-and-articles/blogs/2021/03/2...
The sprinkler is “activated” if the ambient temperature around the sprinkler head is 40C, due to the little “wet pipe” in the sprinkler bursting. 40C is HOT. Basically - when your whole apartment is beginning to catch fire. It’s designed to save lives, not your things.
Newer (higher end) apartments will have the sprinkler itself hidden / recessed, this way the little wet pipe / vial can’t be accidentally damaged by force (when cleaning, painting, etc)
- 40c is miserable to be in, but it's not really that hot compared to fire or combustion. The record hot day in Phoenix was 50c; miserable but livable w/ precautions.
wet pipe burst temps are between 57c-75c .
- While 40°C is hot, it is not insanely hot. Every summer temp goes easily above 35°C in my apartment for a number of days.
- 40C is not comfortable, but it's pretty normal summer weather in many parts of the world.
- > The sprinkler is “activated” if the ambient temperature around the sprinkler head is 40C
So pretty much room temperature in central Europe in summer?
- It's kind of funny that everyone's crapping on this comment when the poor value proposition of sprinklers in residential settings is exactly what enabled the investment to develop this system.
- I use to worry about this but the industry claims about 1 per 20 million accidental discharge per year, which over the lifespan of a home works out to be 10-1000x less than other common hazards (including fire).
- Please enlighten us then, why do many countries require commercial kitchens have fire sprinklers if it's such a terrible and dangerous idea?
- Most developed jurisdictions require commercial kitchens (and commercial spaces in general) to have fire suppression systems, not necessarily fire sprinklers. Water sprinklers are a common choice for fire suppression in many spaces because they're relatively cheap, but they're not the only option. A kitchen fire suppression system will generally be a wet chemical system that will safely blanket a grease fire while still being easy to clean off of food prep surfaces unlike dry chemicals.
- Presumably because the regulations were written by people who have zero experience of either kitchens, fires, or kitchen fires.
Do you know what happens when you put water on an oil fire, which is pretty much what you're going to have in a kitchen?
- > Do you know what happens when you put water on an oil fire
When the water is coming out of the ceiling at 25 gpm, you get a lot of slightly oily water and no fire.
To answer your earlier question, the purpose of sprinklers in a house is to save my pets' lives if a fire starts while I'm away.
- You seem to erroneously believe these are a little squirt gun pointed right at the oil pot.
- That's not how sprinklers work?
Have you ever lived in a place with sprinklers?
Do you actually think they go off when ever the highly sensitive smoke detectors detect you made your pizza extra crispy with the window closed.
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53 points by 0in 1 day ago | 32 comments