- The Pioneer Saloon in Paisley, Oregon is pretty solid, considering it's in the middle of nowhere in the Oregon outback. It's actually a popular stop (not that there's a lot of options) for folks who drive down to Burning Man from Seattle and Portland, so it will be seeing quite a few more visitors over the next few weeks.
- That whole area makes for a fascinating trip. It is really, really empty and remote.
Paisley is home to one of the largest ranches in the US: https://crookcountyhistorycenter.org/2022/10/one-of-largest-...
And nearby they found some extremely old coprolites: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paisley_Caves
The somewhat nearby Christmas Valley area saw some the world's oldest footwear discovered in a cave https://www.oregonencyclopedia.org/articles/fort_rock_sandal...
There are some inland sand dunes near Christmas Valley as well.
- And if you're visiting the area, absolutely stop at Summer Lake Hot Springs, which is just a few miles outside of Paisley. They have natural geothermal hot springs, which combined with the pitch black sky out there, makes for some incredible late night soaks under the stars.
- Re: Callahagn's in Mobile, AL starting as a "members only" club.
To quote Gene Hackman in "Mississippi Burning" - "Member of what?"
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. - Groucho Marx- Strange: of all things possibly connected you mentioned that movie and Gene Hackman. I've had both the brain w.r.t. to the current administration.
- In the 1800s, there were a lot of fraternal organizations. Some of them were social clubs [0], some provided for funeral arrangements [1]. About the only remaining one of these is (are?) Freemasonry.
One should remember that the US had very strong anti-Catholic feelings [2] until the early 1900s. Irish-Americans remember that back then, they were not considered "white" (neither were Italians or Spanish speaking peoples - because those countries were predominantly Catholic). There was even an anti-Catholic political party called the "Know Nothings" [3]. The Ku Klux Klan were not the first anti-Catholic terrorist organization in America.
Even economists got into the belief that Catholics got what was coming to them because they weren't Real True Christians™ [4].
> According to Weber (1904, 1905), it was John Calvin who introduced the theological doctrines which combined with those of Martin Luther to form a significant new attitude toward work. Calvin was a French theologian whose concept of predestination was revolutionary. Central to Calvinist belief was the Elect, those persons chosen by God to inherit eternal life. All other people were damned and nothing could change that since God was unchanging. While it was impossible to know for certain whether a person was one of the Elect, one could have a sense of it based on his own personal encounters with God. Outwardly the only evidence was in the person's daily life and deeds, and success in one's worldly endeavors was a sign of possible inclusion as one of the Elect. A person who was indifferent and displayed idleness was most certainly one of the damned, but a person who was active, austere, and hard-working gave evidence to himself and to others that he was one of God's chosen ones (Tilgher, 1930).
> Calvin taught that all men must work, even the rich, because to work was the will of God. It was the duty of men to serve as God's instruments here on earth, to reshape the world in the fashion of the Kingdom of God, and to become a part of the continuing process of His creation (Braude, 1975). Men were not to lust after wealth, possessions, or easy living, but were to reinvest the profits of their labor into financing further ventures. Earnings were thus to be reinvested over and over again, ad infinitum, or to the end of time (Lipset, 1990). Using profits to help others rise from a lessor level of subsistence violated God's will since persons could only demonstrate that they were among the Elect through their own labor (Lipset, 1990).
> Selection of an occupation and pursuing it to achieve the greatest profit possible was considered by Calvinists to be a religious duty. Not only condoning, but encouraging the pursuit of unlimited profit was a radical departure from the Christian beliefs of the middle ages. In addition, unlike Luther, Calvin considered it appropriate to seek an occupation which would provide the greatest earnings possible. If that meant abandoning the family trade or profession, the change was not only allowed, but it was considered to be one's religious duty (Tilgher, 1930).
Source [5].
On a different note, Kansas used to allow each county to remain "dry" after Prohibition was ended [6]. In those counties, it was legal for restaurants/clubs to serve alcohol to "members" (they were called "class b clubs" [7]). Frequently, joining such "member only" organizations cost something like $1 to $10. I used to travel on business in Kansas in the 80s and I remember dealing with this legal fiction.
I know - TMI. Sorry about that.
Notes: 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_society
1 - Was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foresters_Friendly_Society And is now an insurance company. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foresters_Financial
2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism_in_the_United...
3 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing
4 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic
5 - http://workethic.coe.uga.edu/history.htm
- There was never a point in American history where the Irish were not considered white. It's just that racism is amazingly not limited to whites vs non-whites.
- Indeed! [0]
Also pervasive is this idea that Irish were also enslaved in the Americas when they were not. Indentured servitude yes but enslavement, no. [1]
[0] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/victorian-literature...
- I don't think Gene Hackman was suggesting it was a Calvinist joint
- During covid lockdowns, several of the local, non-chain restaurants switched to 'members only' clubs because the way Colorado's covid emergency proclamation was crafted, the 'clubs' could stay open and continue to server food and drink.
My wife and I joined one at a nearby Mexican place so we could keep our date nights when all other restaurants were doing takeout only. Membership was free, they gave us a paper card we flashed at the door to get in.
- That was (is?) how it was in dry counties in TX. Join the club for $1, you can get drinks. Membership valid for a year.
- > Even economists
What do you mean "even"?
- Safari's reader mode is a godsend for this article. I just want to see a simple list of "state - bar - date" but this is like those recipe blog posts where you need to sort through a bunch of filler until you finally get the recipe after numerous paragraphs of fluff.
- Just ate at The Tavern in Abingdon, Virginia last night. I'm biased since I grew up here and am back visiting, but truly a beautiful little town with some stunning nature and hiking nearby.
The Tavern itself has a great food and wine service for such a small town!
- I've been to the Palace in Prescott, AZ. Neat place. I was told by locals that during the 1900 fire, the patrons picked up the actual bar and carried it out of the saloon to save it.
- In the North Dakota section, the picture is of a Bonanzaville street (a sort of living museum of Fargo's history), not the functioning Town Hall Bar. The Town Hall Bar is trivial to see from Google Street View. Yes, there is a "Meat Raffle" every year.
- Eischen's is a favorite among locals around Oklahoma City. Not for the bar but for the whole fried chickens you can get there. It's definitely worth a visit!
- It's really nice seeing those pubs the are really connected to a tumultuous history.
The oldest pub I've been not too far from is "The Old Ferry Boat Inn". The structure isn't that old, dating to the 17th Century. It is claimed to date to 560 AD, but if you believe that, I have a bridge (very old) I'd like to sell you.
- People getting continuously drunk since 560 AD somewhere seems a little more believable than the oldest pub in a state managing to be a speak easy during prohibition.
- For sure pubs ran through prohibition.
McSorley's Old Ale House on the Lower East Side of Manhattan was definitely fully operational during prohibition. You can read about it on Wikipedia, but my preferred reference is Joseph Mitchel's "McSorley's Wonderful Saloon"
- Such bars exist but I think these bars are less likely than average to be those bars. Regrounding after prohibition was particularly likely for these locations and many of them are going to be smaller than average.
- Why would a bar in Alaska close during prohibition when they weren't part of the USA yet?
- Alaska wasn't a state yet, but it was part of the United States and thus federal law applied there.
Moreover, Alaska passed its own alcohol prohibition laws before the nation-wide prohibition.
- Moreover still, there are still communities in Alaska that have (locally mandated) prohibition.
In fact, there is a pending Supreme Court case related to this in which a pilot's airplane was confiscated when his passengers were discovered with beer in one of those places: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jouppi_v._Alaska
- The Old '76 House in New York has direct ties to the US Revolution. John André was held and tried for espionage in the building, and would be the first British aristocrat hanged by the Colonists.
Most people don't remember André, but are more familiar with his co-conspirator. That was Benedict Arnold, who, among other treasonous acts, had arranged with André to turn over the fort at West Point to the British.
The story goes that George Washington was in the building now known as the Old '76 House when he was informed of Arnold's traitorous plans. Upon learning this, he walked to the wall where a picture of Arnold hung and turned it upside down. It remains there, still upside down, to this day.
https://www.lohud.com/gcdn/authoring/authoring-images/2023/1...
- There's a memorial a few blocks away, at the site of his execution, that now lives in the middle of a suburban street.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Major+Andre+Monument/@41.0...
- King George in Bristol PA is quite a good place
"As George Washington's army approached Bucks County in 1781, the image of George II was replaced with a likeness of General Washington"
- As depicted by Norman Rockwell:
https://prints.nrm.org/detail/518488/rockwell-the-new-tavern...
- Finally a use for copy/pasting AI!
1668 — Old ’76 House — Tappan, New York
1673 — White Horse Tavern — Newport, Rhode Island
1681 — King George II Inn — Bristol, Pennsylvania
1742 — Black Horse Tavern & Pub — Mendham, New Jersey
1747 — Reynolds Tavern and 1747 Pub — Annapolis, Maryland
1753 — The Pirate’s House — Savannah, Georgia
1776 — The Griswold Inn — Essex, Connecticut
1779 — Old Talbott Tavern — Bardstown, Kentucky
1779 — The Tavern — Abingdon, Virginia
1780 — Warren Tavern — Charlestown, Massachusetts
1789 — The Inn at Hancock — Hancock, New Hampshire
1790 — Ye Olde Tavern — Manchester, Vermont
1806 — Old Absinthe House — New Orleans, Louisiana
1827 — Ye Olde Trail Tavern — Yellow Springs, Ohio
1831 — New Hudson Inn — New Hudson, Michigan
1835 — Knickerbocker Saloon — Lafayette, Indiana
1842 — O’Malley’s — Weston, Missouri
1847 — The Village Tavern — Long Grove, Illinois
1850 — Landmark 1850 — Milwaukee, Wisconsin
1852 — Golden Gate Saloon — Grass Valley, California
1852 — Breitbach’s Country Dining — Balltown, Iowa
1853 — The Genoa Bar and Saloon — Genoa, Nevada
1857 — Hays House Restaurant and Tavern — Council Grove, Kansas
1859 — The Buffalo Rose — Golden, Colorado
1860s — Buckhorn Saloon and Opera House — Las Vegas, New Mexico
1862 — Miners and Stockmen’s Steakhouse — Hartville, Wyoming
1863 — Bale of Hay Saloon — Virginia City, Montana
1864 — Kelly’s Logan House — Wilmington, Delaware
1866 — Scholz Garten — Austin, Texas
1876 — Glur’s Tavern — Columbus, Nebraska
1877 — The Palace Restaurant and Saloon — Prescott, Arizona
1877 — Buffalo Bodega — Deadwood, South Dakota
1879 — Shooting Star Saloon — Huntsville, Utah
1883 — Pioneer Saloon — Paisley, Oregon
1887 — Neumann’s — North St. Paul, Minnesota
1887 — Bluebird Inn — Bickleton, Washington
1891 — Imperial Bar — Juneau, Alaska
1896 — Eischen’s Bar — Okarche, Oklahoma
1896 — Springwater Supper Club & Lounge — Nashville, Tennessee
1899 — North End Tavern and Brewery — Parkersburg, West Virginia
1903 — The Palace Saloon — Fernandina Beach, Florida
1905 — The Ohio Club — Hot Springs, Arkansas
1906 — Ford’s Bar — Idaho Falls, Idaho
1932 — Antlers Bar — Blowing Rock, North Carolina
1933 — Henry’s on the Market — Charleston, South Carolina
1935 — Town Hall Bar — West Fargo, North Dakota
1936 — Forest Gardens — Portland, Maine
1946 — Callaghan’s Irish Social Club — Mobile, Alabama
1948 — Blue Front Cafe — Bentonia, Mississippi
1957 — La Mariana Sailing Club — Honolulu, Hawaii
Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/oldest-bar-every-state
- Knickerbocker Saloon (and Lafayette and Purdue, or as my sibling calls it - Purdon't) slaps.
Midwestern college towns are great.
- As far as partying goes, I found Purdue ... fine? It was the only college I attended, so maybe it was better than I thought?
I do remember a poster they put up with statistics to encourage people to drink less that said something roughly: "Survey shows 2 out of every 5 students drink 3 drinks or fewer when partying" which would imply that 60% of students drink more than 3 drinks...
- Warrens Tavern was surprisingly solid for what I expected to be a tourist trap
- setting aside my disappointment over DC's absence (I know the heading says "state" strictly but still ... ) Wyoming's is really a purpose-fitting one
- It has to be Old Ebbitt Grill
- It is. 1856.
- What I found interesting is how difficult “oldest” becomes to define once you look closely. Some places have very old buildings, others changed names or owners, and some even closed for a while before reopening.
It’s a nice example of how a simple historical ranking can turn into a question about what actually makes an institution the same institution over time.
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